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cabbie

April 9, 2015 Auction results

To all investor friends who believed and hoped that there was light at the end of the tunnel. As of April 9, 2015, Caicos Beach  Resort & Marina was sold at auction. I am a simple bloke and hoped one day to retire to the TCI. I have lost my money and also the hope to retire there. I guess things could be worse. I hope this helps all of you organise to deal with what is now the inevitable truth.  Sad  I wish you all the best of luck. I have no recourse because I trusted RR. If anyone has any ideas on how we can recoup our funds, I would like to hear about it. Good luck to us all.
YellowBird

Any company that buys the resort would also be buying its liabilities. Owners could make a claim on the land, but may mean going to court for many years.
cabbie

sorry dont know how to use this forum. I hope I am replying.
It was a foreclosure auction which means that when the the buyer came forth with cash in hand, it was sold "as is". Now any legal action that takes place between caicos beach and the bank is another matter post auction. But the auction sold the property and will deliver clear title. I was advised by my solicitor on the ground. The likelihood of us receiving one penny is nill to none. That is my reality. Good luck to you.
YellowBird

Sold as is means sold with its liabilities, which will have to have been made known at the time of sale. The new owner therefore must return all deposits paid or continue to develop as planned. Otherwise they will have a massive group legal action on their hands with hundreds of us paying several thousand each to force any new owner to return all deposits with years of interest in compensation.
cabbie

Yellowbird, the new owner receives CLEAN title. There are no liabilities - absolutely zero liabilities passed on to the new owner. If any litigation does transpire it would be between the old developer (RR) with the bank and/or the government. The new owner will not be involved. The developer(RR) has no money to initiate any  litigation I am told.  In fact, it was mentioned that the new owner will tear down ALL the existing buildings and do whatever they please with the land. I paid my solicitor to receive this information. I suggest you hire your own solicitors and extract the truth. I did so because I need to know the truth because I am retiring and have pledged my retirement funds in this property to retire,only to lose them. I now have to postpone retirement to recoup some of the losses, god willing, work another 5-8 years to settle matters. But at least I know the truth. I have not known the truth for 10 years. I dont mean to sound harsh, but I can deal with the truth and move on. I am too old to deal with fiction and frankly I do not want to.  Best~
YellowBird

I was in a simar situation with another development in the past. If what your saying has any truth then what will.likely happen is that the new owner will relaunch the development and offer the first units to the previous owners at a founders club rate/offer. In the case of my previous development in a similar situation all owners rejected this and got £2 million together between the buyers to hire lawyers. 6 years after long court battles the lost deposits were returned and the new deceloper was unable to get anything of the ground on the new development because of their legal costs and money the court forced them to repay. This was with a very large public company.
cabbie

If the new developer has a different purpose for the land, why would they be obligated to us? There is no obligation whatsoever. They are going to tear down the buildings and probably create a better use for the land.
The next announcement I expect to hear according to my solicitor is that our Developer declares bankruptcy- which would be the smart thing to do according to my lawyer. We will all receive legal notice when they do. Needless to say, its over. If you have the funds and have the patience for another decade's fight, by all means do so. I am at a point where I will choose my battles and this one I have no interest to fight. My solicitor looked at my contract and said its not worth the fight. We cant stop the demolition, we cant stop the new developer to develop as they please. What I can do is cut my losses. Lesson learned: "Let the Buyer Beware." I wish you all to be at peace with your decision. I now am. Best~
YellowBird

Because the new developer knew about the hundreds of contracts and property sold on the existing land at time of purchase. How can they legally ignore that obligation that comes with the purchase when.it can be proven that they know of the existing purchases for the existing building along with receipts, contract copies and bank transfer statements. They are directly benefiting from our payments made for the purchase of the properties on the existing land. Any court will see this. A claim could be enforced on the land registry books which would block any new developer from proceeding with sales.
YellowBird

Are you saying that Rahl & Rahl intentionally secured the redevelopment of the airport and helped arrange the financing for it in order that they could better sell the land to benefit from it financially and personally. I think they need to be investigated if true and would most likely end up in prison for serious fraud. I am interested to see what CHUCK has to say about it all.
cabbie

YB, I would suggest that you read the auction terms and conditions that were published. If you lose your house to foreclosure, would the new buyer be subject to curing your defaults? The answer is no. But do not take my word, hire an attorney in the TCI and they will provide you with the answers you are seeking. That is what I had to do. I am not here to provide legal advice. I had to pay for mine. I suggest you do the same. Know your rights at this point and fight out what legal remedies you have at your disposal. I am a simple man who made a serious mistake. This is what I am guilty of. I hope this helps. Best~
YellowBird

I am not sure that they can knowingly sell the development again obtaining a profit over the apartments that were already sold.

Also the new developer would be well aware of the buyer´s rights derived from the purchase agreements entered between them and RR

Please can you post a link to the auction terms and conditions that were published?
cabbie

http://tciresort.com/auction-details/

Best~
YellowBird

Thanks for the link. The following terms are interesting, suggesting they may be liable to the existing purchases of the property constructed and sold.


A prospective purchaser must however carry out its own due diligence including, without limitation, by way of inspection and searches of public records.

No representation or warranty is given as to whether development permission was obtained for the erection of such buildings or whether there has been compliance with the terms or conditions of any permission granted.

All risk with respect to the Property shall pass to the Purchaser on execution of the SPA.
cabbie

Since their intent is to demolish the buildings, they are not taking on any risk.

It is a moot point.
cabbie

Please note the following which is the crux of this discussion:

You cannot pick and choose paragraphs for arguments sake:

19. The Property is sold “AS IS” and the maxim “Caveat Emptor” shall apply. The Vendor makes no warranty as to the structural integrity, state of completion, fitness for purpose or otherwise as to the buildings located on the Property. No representation or warranty is given as to whether development permission was obtained for the erection of such buildings or whether there has been compliance with the terms or conditions of any permission granted.

22. All prior CHARGES registered on the title to the Property will be discharged as at completion.
YellowBird

They can't knowingly sell the development again obtaining a profit over the apartments that were already sold.

All risk with respect to the Property (including legal action from existing investors of the property) shall pass to the Purchaser on execution of the SPA.
YellowBird

"All prior charges" refers to the charges with loans and banks. Its does not free the owner from the legal onslaught from the hundreds of existing buyers and investors.

The new owner can't knowingly sell the development again obtaining a profit over the apartments that were already sold.
cabbie

Thats what I said to my attorney...and he said the property is the physical property- not the charges.
22. All prior charges registered on the title to the Property will be DISCHARGED as at completion.

I have my answers, I suggest you gather your own. Good Luck. Best ~
cabbie

YellowBird wrote:
"All prior charges" refers to the charges with loans and banks. Its does not free the owner from the legal onslaught from the hundreds of existing buyers and investors.

The new owner can't knowingly sell the development again obtaining a profit over the apartments that were already sold.


Yes they can as they receive CLEAR TITLE.

You can sue our Developer and they can sue the Bank, but its a moot point at this time. They have no monies.

The New owner can do as they please.
YellowBird

I'm not convinced the new owner can do as they please.

Are the bank profiting from our misfortune? Why should the bank recover their funds but not us?
cabbie

YellowBird wrote:
Are you saying that Rahl & Rahl intentionally secured the redevelopment of the airport and helped arrange the financing for it in order that they could better sell the land to benefit from it financially and personally. I think they need to be investigated if true and would most likely end up in prison for serious fraud. I am interested to see what CHUCK has to say about it all.


Did you ever receive documentation regarding the financing of the airport?
I never did. The new owner is not obligated to do anything with regards to the deposits because they are not going to use the property as is once they receive clear and free title. that is the raw and hurtful truth.

But again, retain an attorney and strategise your own course of action.
I have paid attorneys with money I didnt have to get to this point. If you have that luxury of retaining an attorney for the long run, God bless you.

The weight has been lifted off my shoulders just to learn the truth. I hope you find yours. goodnight as it is quite late here and I am still fuming from today's reports. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life with the truth in hand. Best ~
YellowBird

Seems a bit odd that we get the good news of the new airport go ahead and then this straight after! Well I suppose it balances out to 0.
Oliver

Not sure it as clear cut as cabbie suggest, although I may be wrong. The bank put this into auction and it was purchased at I presume a rock bottom price. But that does not mean it's a done deal.

The bank will have a charge over the land and property and are therefore the real owners, or rather are the only people who can actually sell. The bank, who tried to sell before through an auction and failed, may not accept this auction deal being too low.

The Rahls I know have been negotiating with various parties for refinance and if they come up with the right deal for the bank (and they must know what that is) then not all is lost.

So yes, this does not sound good considering other related positive news we had re airport, Caicos property prices and holiday footprint but it is not the end game I bet.  

I just can't imagine R&R allowing themselves to be outdone after all these years, this was their nest egg too.
cabbie

ArthurHolmes wrote:
So we know there was an auction and apparently it was sold off but we don't know the buyer, or price, or their intentions?


AH, I suggest you hire a TCI solicitor if you are an investor, and they should be able to deliver the facts. Do not depend on what is reported here. I have the answers to your questions, but I paid for my answers with money I did not have. I had to borrow money to find out the truth which is bloody ridiculous. I lost the money I invested and on top of that I had to borrow money to find out the truth! Do you see something wrong with that picture?

I would have hoped that RR would have made a formal announcement to all of us, but as usual they are in hiding.

Does anyone know of the TCI attorneys that represent Caicos Beach Resort ? RR cannot represent its own Client in the TCI. According to my lawyer, RR has never been able to practice in the TCI. Their legal opinion means nothing in the TCI.

If anyone has this information, I would appreciate it.

Also, my solicitor has initiated a formal investigation with the Attorney General in Florida where the RR group holds a license and also with the TCI AG.

Bloody hell....Enough is enough with all the lies!
YellowBird

Mr. Alden Durham was the Director of Caicos Beach Club Resort in 2009. I am not sure if he was also up till now?

Quote:
Minister of Works Alden Durham, "guilty
of unconstitutional behavior and of ministerial
malpractices which rendered them unfit
to exercise ministerial responsibilities"

http://online.wsj.com/public/reso...smarchant-conference-05012009.pdf

The Rahls acted as legal counsel to Caicos Beach Club Resort.

Stanfield Greene was the lawyer for many purchases. Have not heard from him for years. Someone here suggested that he was colluding with the Rahls. If true this would be fraud also.

Stanfield Greene Attorneys at Law
Post Office Box 481
Graceway House, Building B
Suite 205, Leeward Highway
Providencales, Turks & Caicos

Tel: 649.941.3101
Fax: 649.941.3102

Email: csg@stanfieldgreene.com
Oliver

Our only hope is if the Rahls can convince the bank that their deal is better and to take it, or negotiate with the purchaser and agree some sort of deal with them.

The auction seems odd. I understand that the monies was minimum but still accepted by the bank. There may be a deal such as a initial purchased price and further monies once the resort is up and running.

Attacking the Rahls has no value, they have no money, this resort was their future too. Sadly they remain our only options of a rescue. I agree with cabbie that the new owners have no responsibility to us and will only deal with us, or the Rahls, if they are threatened to be tied up in court for years.
cabbie

Oliver wrote:
Our only hope is if the Rahls can convince the bank that their deal is better and to take it, or negotiate with the purchaser and agree some sort of deal with them.

The auction seems odd. I understand that the monies was minimum but still accepted by the bank. There may be a deal such as a initial purchased price and further monies once the resort is up and running.

Attacking the Rahls has no value, they have no money, this resort was their future too. Sadly they remain our only options of a rescue. I agree with cabbie that the new owners have no responsibility to us and will only deal with us, or the Rahls, if they are threatened to be tied up in court for years.


Oliver, there is no more negotiating/ convincing with the bank. The purchaser has no interest in dealing or recognising Caicos Beach Resort. Their intent is to tear the buildings down. The government and the purchaser does not want to deal with RR. This is a known fact in the TCI. My lawyer and most of the lawyers in the TCI acknowledge this.

There is no reason for the new owners to be tied up in court for the next several years. They will receive clear title. The only option on the table for the RR's is to declare bankruptcy. Will we be reimbursed for our investments? The only way that can be determined if there is a full investigation conducted by the authorities. The UK and the US investigation is underway and TCI will be forced to provide them with answers by the TCI Governor.

There is no going back to nullify the auction. Once the gavel hit, there are no further opportunities for RR to have more discussions/negotiations as it was explained to me.

According to my solicitor, the new owner has given RR notice to vacate all equipment and non fixed materials from the property within 60 days.

What the authorities will do now is to find out who are the true owners of Caicos Beach Resort and conduct their due diligence from day 1 to review all transactions, investments etc. If there were, the burden of proof will lie with the Developer and anyone else that was involved.

If RR truly conducted themselves as legal representatives they should be prepared to present all evidence to the various courts. If not, oh well.

Once the authorities are engaged, you cannot un-engage them.

If you think there is a financial reprieve for us as investors, currently there isnt. I am furious with all this. I have spent monies and endless hours with my solicitor to find the truth- all the while the information being shoveled in this forum was nothing but fiction.

As I said before, I, too am guilty of believing in something that died a decade ago. This project began in 1999- it doesnt take 15+ years to finish a project. Even if there was force majeure, there should have been remedies or the project should have been sold to someone who could finish it. andhere we are now with zero and a criminal investigation pending. That thought deserves a moment of solitude as I pour myself a cup of tea.

Best~

PS..if you have any doubts, I suggest you hire your own solicitor. Do not rely on my words. Each case is different and your circumstances may differ from mine.
Oliver

There are some oddities here that can be questioned;

1) How did the auction happened so quickly, was there any notice?
2) How did this take the Rahls by surprise, they must have been informed?
3) Why did the bank accept rock bottom price which had been offered to them before and they refused?
4) Why can't the Rahls, on behalf of the owners, not challenge the auction presult considering they will be taken out completely at such a low cost?

On your comments;

Why is there no more negotiating with the bank? The auction is not the transfer of title.

Why won't anyone deal with the Rahls considering what they could have brought to the island?

What US and UK investigation have started, who started these and when considering the auction was only very recent, or have these been underway for a bit?

I must admit that it has always been odd that the Rahls could not organise the finance quicker considering the quality of the project, I don't know why that is but something seems to be scaring investors away.

Unless something can be done quickly to get ownership back this is a lost cause. Tying the new owners in court, if even possible, would have a negative impact on the building anyway.
cabbie

Oliver wrote:
There are some oddities here that can be questioned;

1) How did the auction happened so quickly, was there any notice?
2) How did this take the Rahls by surprise, they must have been informed?
3) Why did the bank accept rock bottom price which had been offered to them before and they refused?
4) Why can't the Rahls, on behalf of the owners, not challenge the auction presult considering they will be taken out completely at such a low cost?

On your comments;

Why is there no more negotiating with the bank? The auction is not the transfer of title.

Why won't anyone deal with the Rahls considering what they could have brought to the island?

What US and UK investigation have started, who started these and when considering the auction was only very recent, or have these been underway for a bit?

I must admit that it has always been odd that the Rahls could not organise the finance quicker considering the quality of the project, I don't know why that is but something seems to be scaring investors away.

Unless something can be done quickly to get ownership back this is a lost cause. Tying the new owners in court, if even possible, would have a negative impact on the building anyway.


My answers are attached to your questions.
1) How did the auction happened so quickly, was there any notice? This was the 4th auction, the auction date , terms & conditions were published at least 3 weeks beforehand.
2) How did this take the Rahls by surprise, they must have been informed
By surprise? How so? Ms Rahl attended each auction personally. She has never been able to secure financing.
3) Why did the bank accept rock bottom price which had been offered to them before and they refused? Who offered them? If Ms Rahl offered them and she could not perform, is that a bank refusal? If you read the bid terms, the Bidder had to submit a bid package with proof of funds cleared through TCI governance. She was never able to.
4) Why can't the Rahls, on behalf of the owners, not challenge the auction presult considering they will be taken out completely at such a low cost?
Because the Rahls could not perform. They could not deliver funds to the table.
The RR group were formally aware of each auction and Ms Rahl attended all 4 auctions incl. the April 9, 2015 date. Just because they happened to neglect to advise us, it doesnt matter.

The title transfer has not taken place because the owners  want the RR group to move tons of material and equipment which according to my solicitor is tonnage. It is a feat to move it from the island and probably cost prohibitive.

The fact that the RR group did not formally inform us of the status of the property, meaning going into auction and the several other huge improprieties, it lends itself to many other suspicious activity, which the authorities found ground to commence an investigation.

Since we have some of the facts now, why have they disappeared and not have the decency and professional courtesy to make a formal announcement either personally or through their attorneys? Someone asked...Why doesnt Chuck say something? He also has vanished according to comments I have received in private.

So there you have it "as is". Again, as I tell everyone- your case may be different than mine and probably is- seek legal advice. RR does not represent you- RR 'allegedly' represents the Caicos Beach and marina project. I do not know what their official capacity is at this point because they cannot practice law in the TCI. They do not practice in the UK. They have a license in the US. Did they represent themselves as lawyers in the TCI? DID/do they conduct themselves as lawyers in the TCI? I am told that the US Bar association and the US AG will determine that for the US investors and the AG & Governor will initiate serious disciplinary measures against them by the TCI AG and the UK;  as the Governor reports to the Queen. Given the past corrupt history of the TCI that led to the UK authorities implementing themselves to stabilise the situation and impose their own disciplanary measures, they are not taking this matter lightly. Did someone in the Government enable RR to do what they did? This will be also be unveiled.

Did RR provide resources for the airport as discussed in this forum? Absolutely not. It was a mere stall tactic that lasted for years.

I may be a simple bloke- but I recognise a con job when I see one and I needed to retain a solicitor to confirm my suspicions.

Good luck to you mate. Best~
YellowBird

Does anyone know who brought the land at the auction and at what price? Is anyone investigating them?
Oliver

Seems that cabbie knows his stuff and the Rahls are not being painted in a  rosy picture which may be true or not but with investigations now started we may find out.

I have been in contact with Chuck since the auction (as I believe have others) and whilst he did have a direct line to the Rahls and therefore at times our only contact he is also an investor who will also be impacted. I don't think he is an 'insider' and was always quite honest with his information. I don't really understand the benefit of him lying to us to keep us sitting waiting.
CHUCK

Vanished I don't think so

Cabbie you know I haven't vanished because you also know I emailed you privately. I asked you to email me with the details of your purchase and you real name and of course you did not respond.
 I try to avoid this site as it can be a source for people to speculate and spread miss information. I will be emailing all on my list who I believe are owners and to reassure you I have not disappeared. Even though you all know that already. The Rahls are also not in hiding, but working on fixing a blindside by the bank.
 As always and for many Sincerely Chuck
CHUCK

Ha I meant to say as always for many years  Oliver is right that I'm only an investor like the rest of you. The difference between us is that I have spent hundreds of ours and thousands of dollars to inform and communicate with all my fellow investors I can. I did not even though I could have kept all the info selfishly to my self.
Things are not good but I don't believe there dead, but I will keep owners informed either way.
 Chuck
cabbie

Re: Vanished I don't think so

CHUCK wrote:
Cabbie you know I haven't vanished because you also know I emailed you privately. I asked you to email me with the details of your purchase and you real name and of course you did not respond.
 I try to avoid this site as it can be a source for people to speculate and spread miss information. I will be emailing all on my list who I believe are owners and to reassure you I have not disappeared. Even though you all know that already. The Rahls are also not in hiding, but working on fixing a blindside by the bank.
 As always and for many Sincerely Chuck


Chuck, I am sure this site as been the only source of (mis)-information that most have had and did not take the initiative (incl. yourself) to identify between fact and fiction. Someone was feeding you information and you were the messenger (I hope). If you enabled the Developer and the RR group, you did yourself and your family a tremendous disservice.

As far as my providing you with my information, there is no legal obligation because I have not retained you for any services and I do not want my name attached to your position right now.

The fact that you say that the RRs are fixing a blindside with the bank, is a serious matter- in fact another lie. Ms Rahl is not in a position, financially, legally to fix anything. She owes practically every solicitor on the islands serious money. She is about to be evicted from her apartment as she owes more than 6 months rent. If she was indeed merely a lawyer, why is she in such dire straits? The islands are small and the truth runs rapid.

You are, as I told you in private, perpetuating lies and YOU are not taking your position on this forum seriously. How did you substantiate your "facts" and you are volunteering to keep those on your list informed??? Informed of what??? Which leads me to believe, what is really your ulterior motive??

Everyone needs to drink a good cup of coffee and wake up!

~Best
YellowBird

Can anyone explain the what (Minister of Works) Mr. Alden Durham's involvement with the resort is/was as Director of Caicos Beach Club Resort?

Can he be held accountable to the investors? Should we and the UK government be investigating him as well as the Rahls? This story will need to go to the press and members of parliament soon if there is no information coming forwards soon.
cabbie

YellowBird wrote:
Can anyone explain the what (Minister of Works) Mr. Alden Durham's involvement with the resort is/was as Director of Caicos Beach Club Resort?

Can he be held accountable to the investors? Should we and the UK government be investigating him as well as the Rahls? This story will need to go to the press and members of parliament soon if there is no information coming forwards soon.


YB as I have stressed repeatedly, I suggest retaining a solicitor and getting the facts and not hearsay from this forum. Once you have a credible file based on your individual situation then your solicitor can advise on which legal remedy to proceed with. If you proceed haphazardly, you will only do a disservice to yourself. Since there is no financial remedies in the near future, at least create a strong case so you can write off this loss in your tax filings.

Whoever was involved will be uncovered during the criminal investigation. Hopefully the governments will either put them in prison and penalise them as part of some sort of plea agreement.

The writing is on the wall.

I cant stress enough how important it is to retain your own solicitor. You need to create your own credible legal file with facts and THEN pursue any legal remedy your attorney suggests. You cannot do it on your own.

My case is different than yours. Remember, as far as the law goes, there is still time to do something before the Caicos resort claims bankruptcy. As of today, they have not declared bankruptcy and there may be options available to you.

But please do not take my word for it- talk to a solicitor. I cant stress it enough. I had to borrow money to retain mine, and I am glad I did to get to the bottom of this nonsense. You all should do the same. If not, there is nothing more you can do, just write it off.

~Best
gh

Hello Cabbie,

Firstly thanks for your contributions to the forum, you've obviously spent your hard earned to glean some useful insights which thankfully you are sharing on here.

You've made some bold claims about Ms Rahl in relation to her financial and residential status as well as her apparent 'dire straits', in the interests of defamation you should really substantiate these claims. Also I am intrigued as to why, an investor you waited until 9th April 2015 to register with the forum ?

Whether or not RR were blindsided we'll never really know, there are a number of people on here who have exchanged lots of personal emails with Chuck, I and probably many others fully believe he is only the messenger here and merely conveys the information as-received, at worst he may be guilty of allowing his judgment at times to be clouded by his enthusiasm for the project to succeed but thats hardly a crime.

He has spent a lot of his time and personal funds visiting the resort, taking photos for owners and accompanying them on trips not to mention keeping everyone upto date on the forum, I dont think he has any incentive for perpetuating false hope. I suspect that he may have asked you, like many others on here for a name & email address simply to facilitate civil communication, he's hardly looking for your bank details. I'm sure its not for any ulterior motive so as the saying goes, dont shoot the proverbial.

I agree with you in that the buildings will more than likely to torn down in favour of more contemporary structures be they villas or otherwise (I never really did like the ugly and dated structures currently in place, they're reminiscent of a concentration camp but nobody said investments had to be pretty) thankfully it was only ever going to be an income stream for me. Its the best beachfront location on the island so it will be interesting to see what transpires.

As for being in a position to negoatiate I'm not so sure, if RR can engineer a way out for us then fair play but when the gavel came down I think it brought a finality to our situation. The bank were in a position to sell and did so. The only current debate seems to surround title.

Which legal practitioner in TCI did you retain for your case and if you dont mind me enquiring what form of legal recourse do you intend to pursue ?
cabbie

gh wrote:
Hello Cabbie,

Firstly thanks for your contributions to the forum, you've obviously spent your hard earned to glean some useful insights which thankfully you are sharing on here.

You've made some bold claims about Ms Rahl in relation to her financial and residential status as well as her apparent 'dire straits', in the interests of defamation you should really substantiate these claims. Also I am intrigued as to why, an investor you waited until 9th April 2015 to register with the forum ?

Whether or not RR were blindsided we'll never really know, there are a number of people on here who have exchanged lots of personal emails with Chuck, I and probably many others fully believe he is only the messenger here and merely conveys the information as-received, at worst he may be guilty of allowing his judgment at times to be clouded by his enthusiasm for the project to succeed but thats hardly a crime.

He has spent a lot of his time and personal funds visiting the resort, taking photos for owners and accompanying them on trips not to mention keeping everyone upto date on the forum, I dont think he has any incentive for perpetuating false hope. I suspect that he may have asked you, like many others on here for a name & email address simply to facilitate civil communication, he's hardly looking for your bank details. I'm sure its not for any ulterior motive so as the saying goes, dont shoot the proverbial.

I agree with you in that the buildings will more than likely to torn down in favour of more contemporary structures be they villas or otherwise (I never really did like the ugly and dated structures currently in place, they're reminiscent of a concentration camp but nobody said investments had to be pretty) thankfully it was only ever going to be an income stream for me. Its the best beachfront location on the island so it will be interesting to see what transpires.

As for being in a position to negoatiate I'm not so sure, if RR can engineer a way out for us then fair play but when the gavel came down I think it brought a finality to our situation. The bank were in a position to sell and did so. The only current debate seems to surround title.

Which legal practitioner in TCI did you retain for your case and if you dont mind me enquiring what form of legal recourse do you intend to pursue ?


Dear GH:

I did not retain a Barrister to receive insights, I paid to receive facts. Let me make that utterly clear. I am done with speculation and hearsay. You can plan a course of action with mere insights. YOU REQUIRE FACTS.

I will address each if your comments in order.

1. The only reason I joined the forum at this point is because I had clear facts and since I have been following this forum for a while now, I couldn't make sense of the information. I could not believe what was being said.
When my son was in TCI last year, he told me there was going to be an auction in July- which there was, but no buyer. Was this announced on the Board? NO!!
Then 2 more followed without any qualified buyers and all the time Ms Rahl was present as I was later informed. Were these auctions announced on the Board? No!!
Was Thursday's auction announced?? NO!

Did Chuck advise his "list" of these events? If not, why not? If he did, then I retract my statement. Otherwise is there a logical explanation why he did not? Instead there was the rubbish about the airport that was shoveled to make it look that RR was actually doing something. I suggest you all send an inquiry to the newspaper who printed the story and ask directly to see what % financial contribution or what involvement  the RRs had in order for the newspaper to make that announcement. I can assure you the answer you will receive will astound you.  

I have been trying to make sense of this on my own for years but to no avail. I have a client who is a Barrister whom I trust but because this was a complex situation he referred me to a QC experienced in matters of the Commonwealth. I am a Brit and there is protocol to follow. He quoted me an astronomical fee which I proceeded to accumulate by borrowing the funds. He then proceeded to team up with a qualified attorney in the TCI- who had never has any prior relationship with this Caicos beach file.
Will I provide the names? No, I will not as the file now is under investigation in various jurisdictions and I have been asked not to discuss file information. We do not know as of yet what course the government  will take because the investigation has just begun and it will take time and more money. Sad
What I can discuss are facts of public record which the auction was. If I did not have the concrete factual information, I would have never joined. Have any of you been down to the TCI? If you havent, I suggest you do and ask for all the records reagrding this property. It may take you a considerable amount of time because the information is not digitised, but you will find a good amount of information to point you into the right direction.

2. In terms of defamation-defamation is gossip. I am not one to deliver gossip or to defame anyone. The RR situation is public fact. You can research it yourself. I cannot defame what is fact. It may seem that way, but all the information that was published in here was truly an insult to all of our intelligence. Is that not defamation to our character and intelligence?

3. I dont know of any lawyer who would be working for a client that is not compensated. All the monies that are owed to TCI lawyers with regard to this project are no longer legal counsel. How can it be they are not working for free as the RRs are? I even called the Florida Bar association and asked if it is commonplace in the US that lawyers do not require a retainer. The chap on the line thought I was insulting him. I explained to him the situation and he calmed down. I did not mean to be offensive, I just needed facts. The question remains, what is RRs true role in this fiasco and who is the Developer? Sooner or later this will be found out and I pray that I am wrong. The Florida Bar Assoc has also requested this information and they have been in contact with my attorneys.
What caused the RRs not to provide sound legal advise to the Developer? Was it incompetence? Was it greed? This too will be investigated.
Someone mentioned that their nestegg was in the property. Nest egg plus legal fees and they are in such dire straits? There is something wrong with this picture.

Let me make it clear to all that the RRs were not obligated to provide one iota of legal advice to us, the ignorant investor,but they were obligated to provide either liquidity to the Developer or find a sound financial and legal remedy- both of which will be investigated but are not apparent to us now.

 Mad Who will reimburse me for all this? Noone. But Ill be damned if Ill be played for a fool. Its been over a decade, with calls unanswered or being dismissed by a man on the other line as if I was a burden. They should be ashamed of themselves and I hope they get what they deserve and all those that were complicit with them. YOU CAN HIDE BUT YOU CAN'T RUN!

~Best
YellowBird

Wouldn't it be better if everyone used the same lawyer that can be trusted to prosecute  rather than various random lawyers. Can anyone make any recommendations?

If you think it pointless to prosecute why is it necessary to get a lawyer for the purposes of filing a capital loss in your tax returns to help recover some of the loses against future capital gains?
DJ

If there is a chance of recovering our deposits, a class action would be the most economical way to go. That's if indeed there is a chance???

Surely any monies left over after paying the bank, builders, creditors etc would then be used pay back investors. The land was purchased 20 years ago so should have tripled in value since then???

There is a law firm in the UK who specialise in overseas property class actions. Regulatory Legal and may be worth a call if enough parties are interested.  

http://www.regulatorylegal.co.uk/reglegalwp/
Oliver

I think if it came to it there would be quite a few people on this site who would be interested in joining any legal action and sharing costs. However, my experience is that the only people who get anything out of this is the lawyer unless they get paid by results.

Since Cabbie joined on the day of the auction (odd or not) a lot more information has been made available which has been frightening but possibly true, but mostly to rubbish the Rahls. Whilst I appreciate that the Rahls have so far failed us being unable time after time to find the re-finance for reasons unknown they are the only people who at least consider our interest and protect our investment.

The land must be worth a fortune by now, all given away, as well as dumping our interest, by some sort of deal between the new buyer and the bank, something is also very crooked there too. In one sweep they got valuable land at a song and got rid of us!

The internet can be a useful tool, once the new buyer is known we need to make this public as if they are so easily willing to screw us why not any new investors.
gh

cabbie wrote:


Dear GH:

I did not retain a Barrister to receive insights, I paid to receive facts. Let me make that utterly clear. I am done with speculation and hearsay. You can plan a course of action with mere insights. YOU REQUIRE FACTS.

I will address each if your comments in order.

1. The only reason I joined the forum at this point is because I had clear facts and since I have been following this forum for a while now, I couldn't make sense of the information. I could not believe what was being said.
When my son was in TCI last year, he told me there was going to be an auction in July- which there was, but no buyer. Was this announced on the Board? NO!!
Then 2 more followed without any qualified buyers and all the time Ms Rahl was present as I was later informed. Were these auctions announced on the Board? No!!
Was Thursday's auction announced?? NO!

Did Chuck advise his "list" of these events? If not, why not? If he did, then I retract my statement. Otherwise is there a logical explanation why he did not? Instead there was the rubbish about the airport that was shoveled to make it look that RR was actually doing something. I suggest you all send an inquiry to the newspaper who printed the story and ask directly to see what % financial contribution or what involvement  the RRs had in order for the newspaper to make that announcement. I can assure you the answer you will receive will astound you.  

I have been trying to make sense of this on my own for years but to no avail. I have a client who is a Barrister whom I trust but because this was a complex situation he referred me to a QC experienced in matters of the Commonwealth. I am a Brit and there is protocol to follow. He quoted me an astronomical fee which I proceeded to accumulate by borrowing the funds. He then proceeded to team up with a qualified attorney in the TCI- who had never has any prior relationship with this Caicos beach file.
Will I provide the names? No, I will not as the file now is under investigation in various jurisdictions and I have been asked not to discuss file information. We do not know as of yet what course the government  will take because the investigation has just begun and it will take time and more money. Sad
What I can discuss are facts of public record which the auction was. If I did not have the concrete factual information, I would have never joined. Have any of you been down to the TCI? If you havent, I suggest you do and ask for all the records reagrding this property. It may take you a considerable amount of time because the information is not digitised, but you will find a good amount of information to point you into the right direction.

2. In terms of defamation-defamation is gossip. I am not one to deliver gossip or to defame anyone. The RR situation is public fact. You can research it yourself. I cannot defame what is fact. It may seem that way, but all the information that was published in here was truly an insult to all of our intelligence. Is that not defamation to our character and intelligence?

3. I dont know of any lawyer who would be working for a client that is not compensated. All the monies that are owed to TCI lawyers with regard to this project are no longer legal counsel. How can it be they are not working for free as the RRs are? I even called the Florida Bar association and asked if it is commonplace in the US that lawyers do not require a retainer. The chap on the line thought I was insulting him. I explained to him the situation and he calmed down. I did not mean to be offensive, I just needed facts. The question remains, what is RRs true role in this fiasco and who is the Developer? Sooner or later this will be found out and I pray that I am wrong. The Florida Bar Assoc has also requested this information and they have been in contact with my attorneys.
What caused the RRs not to provide sound legal advise to the Developer? Was it incompetence? Was it greed? This too will be investigated.
Someone mentioned that their nestegg was in the property. Nest egg plus legal fees and they are in such dire straits? There is something wrong with this picture.

Let me make it clear to all that the RRs were not obligated to provide one iota of legal advice to us, the ignorant investor,but they were obligated to provide either liquidity to the Developer or find a sound financial and legal remedy- both of which will be investigated but are not apparent to us now.

 Mad Who will reimburse me for all this? Noone. But Ill be damned if Ill be played for a fool. Its been over a decade, with calls unanswered or being dismissed by a man on the other line as if I was a burden. They should be ashamed of themselves and I hope they get what they deserve and all those that were complicit with them. YOU CAN HIDE BUT YOU CAN'T RUN!

~Best


Dear Cabbie

OK, I'm not going to argue the difference between 'insight' and 'fact' they are tantamount to the same thing in the context of my statement.

Where is the evidence that some sort of multi-juristictional investigation has commenced ? have I missed a post somewhere ? we only have your sayso on that one. You've paid dearly to receive the facts, what do you hope to gain by immersing yourself into another costly legal quagmire of an investigation ?

I wasnt looking for details from your file only the identity of your legal outfit in the TCI, surely thats not confidential as well is it ?. If I were to pursue any legal action of my own then clearly it would make sense to link up with a lawyer in TCI who was already intimate with the background factual detail (after proceeding with your case).

You managed to evade my question in relation to RR, I asked you to substantiate the allegations you made about the financial and residential status of Patti Rahl. You state that defamation is merely gossip, why dont you prove that your accusation is not gossip by giving us the source of that information so we can see for ourselves ?

I'm no cheerleader for the Rahls, as Oliver pointed out they've repeatedly failed to keep us informed of many key milestones particularly surrounding the refinancing of the project but its a bit below the belt publicly stating that Patti Rahl owes 'serious money' to 'every solicitor on the islands' and is about to face eviction for rent default.  

I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make in 3.

rgds
G
cabbie

TO Oliver
Where is the evidence that some sort of multi-juristictional investigation has commenced ? have I missed a post somewhere ? we only have your sayso on that one. You've paid dearly to receive the facts, what do you hope to gain by immersing yourself into another costly legal quagmire of an investigation ?
Answer:
If you had an attorney and your attorney was asked to provide evidence to the authorities, you would know. As to why I am pursuing this matter, to obtain the facts and see what remedies are available to my family. Further than that, it should not be anyone's concern, with all due respect. I did not ask for anyone's permission or funds to pursue this...did I?

I wasnt looking for details from your file only the identity of your legal outfit in the TCI, surely thats not confidential as well is it ?. If I were to pursue any legal action of my own then clearly it would make sense to link up with a lawyer in TCI who was already intimate with the background factual detail (after proceeding with your case).
Answer:
I would suggest you gather your facts first, have the money in hand to retain a lawyer and then with facts in hand you discuss what remedies are available to you. As I mentioned in earlier discussions, every case is and will be different. I suggest you take a trip down to the islands, and sit in the archives dept of the Islands and do your research like we did. My son is there and has been there for the last 3 months. I will be joining him as soon as I can, financially speaking.

You managed to evade my question in relation to RR, I asked you to substantiate the allegations you made about the financial and residential status of Patti Rahl. You state that defamation is merely gossip, why dont you prove that your accusation is not gossip by giving us the source of that information so we can see for ourselves ?
Answer:
Go down to the islands so you can see for yourself. That will put that to bed then. I am not being paid to provide you with anything. Am I? Instead of pontificating from your chair behind a screen, get down to the islands, do some research, and provide a reasonable file for any attorney to review.
~Best
papadodge

I missed this thread but what a disaster, what has happened to Chuck and all the positive rhetoric ?

Can something direct me to the site where I can get the formal information

I will wait and hope  to hear what's those people who have legal advisers tell us about the outcome  

UK INVESTORS

I am not an expert in this subject but I am told that UK investors particularly those who invested via a pension scheme like me have a possible Plan B .I am told  it may be possible that we have claims against our Agents  IFAS , Or SIPP providers or a possible claim for compensation via the FCA  if we used regulated firms even if the investment was unregulated. Apparently this is being done in the case of Harlequin Caribbean  property  via Regulator Legal solicitors  .  Is anybody interested in gathering further information with me  on this possibility .

Papadodge
cabbie

ArthurHolmes wrote:
Cabbie, if you are familiar with this board as I am then you probably already know the following information. It might be of use to you since you seem to be the only one spearheading any legal action.

I see the possibility of the misuse of investors funds.

1) Did RR have the legal authority to use investor funds to build the build that was taken out by the hurricane?

2) It was recently stated on the board that the Sailrock development was using construction equipment with the permission of someone at Caicos Beach Club.

3) Are they paying for the use of this equipment and who are they paying?

4) Did they provide any construction materials to Sailrock that were originally purchased by Caicos Beach Club investors?

5) Now that the sale is final I think it is prudent to get an immediate inventory of any remaining material as it will undoubtedly be sold.

6) I think it would also be prudent to drag RR in front of a judge ASAP and force them to account for every single penny of this development.

I think it was a very poor decision to build that bridge. The project should have been dead in the water back then and it would have saved many people from the false hope of this being completed and dragged out for so many years.

If the buyer is prepared to incur the enormous expense of demolition and removal of any existing structures then they must be very confident of making their money back with any development plans they have.


To AH:

My answers follow your questions below:

1) Did RR have the legal authority to use investor funds to build the build that was taken out by the hurricane?

Answer:
This is a strictly legal question which your lawyer should identify based on on your question. I do not know or claim to make a general statement that all of our purchase contracts are the same. That would be a mistake.

2) It was recently stated on the board that the Sailrock development was using construction equipment with the permission of someone at Caicos Beach Club.

This I believe is not true to the best of my knowledge. The equipment is rusted and non operable as per the visual visit my son made to the island.
The new buyer has asked RR to have all materials, equipment etc. to be removed within the next 60 days (1st day being Friday April 10, 2015) at the RR's cost. There is tonnage and millions worth.

3) Are they paying for the use of this equipment and who are they paying?
I cannot confirm or deny.

4) Did they provide any construction materials to Sailrock that were originally purchased by Caicos Beach Club investors?
I cannot confirm or deny

5) Now that the sale is final I think it is prudent to get an immediate inventory of any remaining material as it will undoubtedly be sold.
Do what you think is prudent.

6) I think it would also be prudent to drag RR in front of a judge ASAP and force them to account for every single penny of this development.

You need an attorney to establish your case and initiate that order.

~Best
cabbie

To all:

I came forth to provide information regarding the results of the latest auction since it was never brought forth by anyone on these boards.

You have the facts of the auction, which you can confirm (or not), if you wish to. I am not here to provide anyone with additional information as it will not assist my case and I do not want anyone's case  influence my case.

As far as providing info to all of you re: RR group, I would suggest you get a ticket to the islands and spend a week researching, talking to attorneys, talking to the people on Provo, and you will have your answers.

I will not pay for and do your footwork. If you choose to pursue your position legally, do so. If not, it is not fair to anyone to sit behind your screens and just make assumptions. You are doing yourselves a disservice and time is of the essence right now.

The Caicos ownership has been modified over the years, and you seriously need to do your homework.

I work 16-18 hrs per day/ 7days a week. I do not have much time to dedicate to this Board. As soon as I can(financially), I will visit TCI and Florida. I will not be back on the Board as it does not serve any  purpose for me. My participation on this Board was for factual information purposes only re: the results of the April 9th auction date as I knew noone affiliated with the RRs would reveal it as it was not. This was the 4th auction and none of the previous were even revealed as point of reference of how the RRs have been protecting the interests of the investors as one of the Board members quoted yesterday. So much for protecting investors interests. They are the least qualified to protect any investor as they need to protect themselves immediately as all hell will break loose in the coming months both in TCI and Florida. Be proactive and not reactive. Take control of your position, dont believe for a minute that anyone would do that for you. If you dont, you only have yourself to blame.

Other than that, I bid you all a goodnight,  good luck, and take care of your families. I hope that you achieve what you wish.

~Best
cabbie

ArthurHolmes wrote:
Cabbie, I think we all understand how utterly furious you are about this as many investors will feel the same after finding out the bad news. Thanks for the info you did provide and what is actually IN the file sounds very ominous indeed.

I think you hit on one thing that most have been suspecting for years......that Chuck was being fed 100% BS for YEARS.......it was all lies and BS excuses for a horrifically mismanaged project that very much now looks like it will be a criminal investigation.

BTW I have emailed all the TCI newspapers and the tv news station and asked them to look into this matter and keep us informed in the future.


AH

I am glad you did. I also would contact the TCIAA and ask who underwrote the financing of the rehab. You will be surprised by their answers, if they indeed respond to you. They may ask you who your attorney is. But needless to say, you need to become a pitbull at this point, and better yet get down to Provo. The government is on full alert of the pending investigations and the pending PR mess this will create. Take this opportunity to make noise. Also you should go to the island and try to locate Rahl herself, she cant run very far. Provo is very small and also Boca Raton Florida.
~Best
barb

There is a lot of information that is online if you search "Maale vs. Caicos."  You'll find many names of the players and companies formed to develop Caicos Beach Club.  Although Maale did not succeed in his lawsuits, it seems to be due to technicalities with trying to serve the Rahls and others.

As far as "Chuck" goes, I have shaken my head over and over in the past few years reading this forum and have commented about him and his "knowledge" of the situation.

You have to ask these questions:

*Why would the Rahls only communicate with ONE "investor" (i.e., "Chuck")?
*Why did "Chuck" desperately want the investors to get on his "E-mail list" only and not be part of this forum?
*Is it possible that "Chuck" is either - 1.  NOT an investor at all but is paid by the Rahl's  or 2.  An investor that was promised his money back if he would keep the investors at bay until there was no recourse?
*Is there a statute of limitations that applies to any recourse?
____________________________________________________________

By the way, I am not an investor myself but was interested in purchasing some years ago (we bought in St. Maarten instead) and have followed this forum to see the progress so we might invest in the future.  I guess that won't be happening now.

Good luck to all of you and I hope you get something back or at least have justice served on those that caused this to happen.
Oliver

What is happening here?

Cabbie has come on-board, created havoc and has now gone, providing all this detail and information. Who was he, we don't know? All we know is that he arrived carrying the auction news and has so much information that he could be a insider himself. I don't think I would throw good money (lawyer) after bad on the basis that we never really had any financial recourse and the best he can do is get some sort of tax rebate (WTF!)

Looking at the other side of the coin, Cabbie could easlily be a New Buyer insider turning us against the Rahls. The information made available is so detailed only a 'interested' local would know, IMHO too much for a fee based lawyer.

Irrespective my point is this; lets for a moment stop chasing the Rahls around the houses and through history and remember;

WE HAVE JUST BEEN CHEATED OUT OF ALL OUR DEPOSITS BY THIS CROOKED AUCTION DEAL.

We need to keep this in mind as cabbie and others focus on the Rahls. I am not suggesting that we had our deposit with the Rahls involved BUT we did have hope, now we have lost both and the New Buyer has got a majot piece of land for peanuts just as the airport work was being started.

So let us concentrate on the fact here. I am still unaware of these investigations that are supposedely going on but one that should be started is why the bank sold at such a low price when the land is worth many mutlitimes the bank loans.
YellowBird

It did also occur to me that the sale at auction might be an inside fraud job.

For example, a friend of Alden Durham could purchase the land from the Bank for peanuts at auction. The Rahls and directors of the development then claim bankruptcy. The new owner is free to re-sale the development getting new funds together to take the development forwards.


Also, why are we suggesting that the Rahls should be prosecuted rather than the developer of the resort? I thought the Rahls were acting only as legal council and have nothing to do with the developer?

Why have we never been introduced to the developer? Notably Mr Alden Durham - the Director. Is it not Alden Durham that is accountable for everything?



Quote:
The following year, in circumstances that resemble what is happening now, the Territory's Constitution was suspended and direct rule imposed from London after a Commission of Inquiry into corruption, arson and related matters found three Government ministers, namely Chief Minister Nathaniel Francis, Minister of Health and Education Robert Hall and Minister of Works Alden Durham, "guilty of unconstitutional behavior and of ministerial malpractices which rendered them unfit to exercise ministerial responsibilities" and two members of the Opposition, Lewis Astwood and Oswald Skippings, "guilty of the most reprehensible conduct" and "unfit to hold public office".

Despite this, when British direct rule ended in 1988, the local population elected Skippings as their new Chief Minister. As with many countries, TCI has a history of acrimony between its main political parties. However, all of that was put aside in 1996 when, in a rare display of unity, all 16 members of the  egislative Council, include cocaine-trafficker Saunders, who had been re-elected after his release from federal prison in the U. S., and unfit-for-office Skippings, signed a petition calling for the removal of then Governor.
fedup

I have been in contact with my UK agent, who knew nothing about the auction, but he has since spoken to Patti and was apparently told that the Rahls would not be giving up on the development after 15 years of work and he would let me know the result of talks. Selling the property off so cheaply also smacks of underhand dealing to me.

I personally do not see what the Rahls can do and unfortunately for us if there is no money to repay investors, then it seems that hiring lawyers would just be wasting more money.
I now can't believe that we were stupid enough to invest over £160000 in this resort. I know that a couple of other investors bought through Destination Sun Ltd and I was trying to find out if we have any claim against them - the company is now dormant so that is highly unlikely! If anyone finds out any further information on what is happening, I have searched for hours and found nothing, then posting it would be appreciated. Crying or Very sad
gh

Some interesting theories Barb, do you think you're in a position to go making unsubstantiated accusations about Chuck ?, after all you dont have a dog in this fight. If you'd exchanged as much personal communication with him as many forumistas here you'd know he isnt the architect of any misinformation posted on this site.

Oliver, some interesting points also which would fit this last weeks forum activity. Although I'm not aware of Cabbies personal circumstances or the extent of his investment I would think that engaging 2 lawyers (one a QC) would burn up the thick end of six figures before not too long (he did mention that he has had to postpone his retirement and work an extra 5 - 8 years to recoup losses).

I'd certainly be confident it would constitute more than a deposit on a unit, to me it's folly parting with such a huge chunk of cash just to get some facts. Facts which I'd imagine paint a bleak picture, following that with any kind of lawsuit / travelling all the way to TCI to sit in the public records office (if they have one) sifting through countless articles would be throwing good money after bad and be significantly more risky than just laying money down on a property elsewhere and taking his chances.

I would get more sleep if I only THOUGHT I'd been screwed over than I would having PAID somebody to tell me same, thats the kind of reassurance I can do without.

Notably he still evaded two simple questions about the identity of his legal outfit in the TCI and any evidence that some sort of criminal multi-jurisdictional investigation was under way.

I must have missed another posting because it seems that some people are making the leap between the Rahls simply being legal counsel retained by the developers, to them actually being the developers ?
YellowBird

gh wrote:
I must have missed another posting because it seems that some people are making the leap between the Rahls simply being legal counsel retained by the developers, to them actually being the developers ?




Alden Durham (an ex TCI Minister, involved in a government corruption case) is Director of the Turks and Caicos' Island Corporation and is the seller.

Whether or not R&R invested their own money in this also. I do not know. But when legal action is taken against them they pretend to only be acting as counsel!

Ironic that R&R gave corruption as one of the reasons for force majeure.
YellowBird

Since it looks likely that many of us here will be filing very large capital loses in the UK, the UK government might be interested in investigating this case.
YellowBird

The following are associated with Alden Durham (ex. Minister of Works)

    The High Point Organization Holding Company Ltd. (Company #4896)
    Vacation Management Ltd. (Company #7002)
    Caicos Beach Club Resort and Marina 1 A Ltd. (Company #9601)
    Caribbean Vacations Ltd. (Company #E-28676)
    H.P.O Holding Ltd. (Company #E-13585)
    Prestress Structures Ltd. (Company #7029)
    Caicos Beach Development Ltd. (Company #5496)




http://www.tciyellowpages.com/tem...es/gazettes/2007/The%20Gazette%20(Vol%20158,%20No.%2033).29%20Jun%2007.pdf
YellowBird

Quote:
Patricia Rahl contends that her long time relationship with Caicos Beach Club Charter, Inc., is not evidence of a long term relationship with the Project.

The plaintiff's reply offers other exhibits to demonstrate the defendants' long-time involvement with the Project, such as land records showing that High Point Organization Holding Company, Ltd., has an ownership interest in the land in which the Project sits. (DE 195-2) The Court has reviewed the records, some dating back to 1970. Of the 20 parcels recorded, three show property registered to High Point Organization Holding Company, Ltd.: the September 30, 1997, transfer of Parcel 21; the October 11, 1992 transfer of Parcel 22, and the April 3, 2003, transfer of Parcel 24. Next, the plaintiff asserts that Patricia Rahl is involved with High Point Organization Holding Company, Ltd.

He provides a June 26, 1993, newspaper article from the Caicos Free Press which states that Patricia Rahl is the corporate counsel of *88 "High Point Organization." (DE 195-3) The plaintiff contends that his Civil RICO Statement shows that all of the defendants are involved in the Project, thus the Rahl defendants should have responsive documents.


https://casetext.com/case/maale-v-caicos-beach-club-chapter
YellowBird

Oliver wrote:
Looking at the other side of the coin, Cabbie could easlily be a New Buyer insider turning us against the Rahls. The information made available is so detailed only a 'interested' local would know, IMHO too much for a fee based lawyer.


This occurred to me also. Maybe cabbie spent all his cab fare money on a nice cheap piece of land in south caicos to retire in! haha.
YellowBird

Quote:
His Excellency the Governor, Peter Beckingham, chaired the meeting of the Cabinet on Wednesday 18th February 2015 in Providenciales.

• Approved the appointment of Mr Alden Durham to the Board of Directors of the Turks and Caicos Islands Ports Authority. Mr. Durham will fill the membership position left vacant on the resignation of Mr. Desmond Wilson;



So our developer who owes millions to us all is now on the Board of Directors of the Turks and Caicos Islands Ports Authority?

https://www.gov.uk/government/wor...t-statement-wednesday-18-february




Perhaps we should write to Peter Beckingham, Governor to Turks and Caicos Islands to get his opinion on the matter?

Quote:
The Governor is the representative of Her Majesty The Queen in a British Overseas Territory. The Governor acts as the de facto head of state and is usually responsible for appointing the head of government, and senior political positions in the territory.
YellowBird

So Alden Durham was just recently appointed by his Excellency the Governor, Peter Beckingham to the Board of Directors of the Turks and Caicos Islands Ports Authority.

Meanwhile a mystery buyer snaps up the South Caicos Beach Club Resort land at auction for peanuts (and wipes their hands of any responsibility to the original investors) because Alden Durham's companies owe millions to Scotia Bank.

This new buyer plans to demolish the buildings and start a new development thereby freeing the Turks and Caicos Islands Ports Director Alden Durham of all responsibility to the original investors who paid in millions of $ for a lease to this failed and mismanaged project.

At the same time, the development of the South Caicos airport is only just now in full swing so that it will be ready to accept international tourists direct to South Caicos island soon and presumably the new resort planned for South Caicos which can now go ahead with no debts.

Why would Scotia bank sell off their debts so cheaply all of a sudden? and I wonder who introduced the mystery buyer to the bank's auction which failed to attract any buyers previously. Was their an introduction fee?
john17

I like YB's suggestion to write to Peter Beckingham, Governor of TCI. I have done so and hope others will. His email is governorgt@fco.gov.uk

If any one can give me some advice on how to get a police/authorities investigation underway in TCI it would be much appreciated. Can I attempt to get a case off the ground in the UK?

Thank you.
bigbozo

I like YB's suggestion too, and see the chance for the masses to get involved and contribute to the effort. YB, you have made some excellent points, so could you draft a template of the key points forming the basis of a complaint to the TCI Governor? This will make it easy for even the complacent masses to get involved and request the Governor to initiate an investigation into the circumstances of the sale, the identity of the buyer, kickbacks etc. Thank you.
Regards
Ian
john17

Totally agree with big bozo .......and a big thank you to YB
Oliver

I fully support such a letter, we just need to be careful what we are saying, there is a lot of misinformation circulating and we do not want to shoot ourselves in the foot if in this political mayhem the Rahl are trying to negoate a deal to get the land back.

Also, we are opening a can of worms which will probably contain the Rahls as there seems to be a long and curious history to this development and business dealings seems to include various unbusiness-like activities.

I agree as united investors we need to make a noise soon but I am also aware that the Rhals are trying to recover the situation, I just don't want us to jeopardise that.
fedup

Auction

Thanks to all those who have recently posted useful information regards the developer etc. I too would be happy to write to the TCI Governor, and if the key points were given it would be a big help.
Thanks
Doug Smallbone

I will come out of the woodwork to assist,  given my frustrating tale of events.

In January 2012 I contacted my MP Sharon Hodgson and she has been a great help to my/our cause. Yes January 2012.

Since Sharon's introduction I have hounded our "great leaders" and have had letters from MPs William Hague, Henry Bellingham and Mark Simmonds who were ministers in charge of TCI.

My final correspondence was from a Lorna Marien on behalf of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office who said that the government could not get involved in individual property disputes.

I have contacted most national newspapers and even the Wall Street Journal to no avail.

Events have concluded as I suspected  -  and, given a push, it is very likely that a major newspaper will highlight our plight. If 500 people are livid and rage that is better than the efforts of the lone warrior  Doug Smallbone - although that is unfair as I have had assistance from a number of buyers.

Any individual correspondence will almost certainly be answered by a civil servant and eventually hit the black sack.

Forget about individual litigation  -  too costly  -  and there is nobody to
be trusted on TCI. If this is only solution left we need a collective group.
This will be difficult judging by the apathy and bad mouthing I received
following my reservations about completion.

For UK Buyers it may help if you write to your MP ( quoting Sharon Hodgson MP has helped a constituent ). If we could get several MPs involved this may stir up a hornets nest.

For non UK buyers ( mainly USA ) you have the same avenue ( Senator ),  but you may receive more reaction than me as a major source of aggravation is based in Florida.

I am fascinated by the post from Fed up  -  what exactly is the useful information about the Developer. Have I missed something  -  who is or what organisation is the developer?

Incidentally  -   what if the bank sold the property on the proviso that the new developer utilises the bank facility and in doing so mitigates the banks  losses. If after 4 auctions I cannot really see anything untoward about that.
What logical alternative does the bank have.

Strangely enough there was $100m left in this project ( 500 x $200k ).
Given a bonefide business person I may have included further stage
payments albeit most buyers are probably on the mortgage route.

Sadly I thing CBC would have worked out.
YellowBird

I wonder if the developer of our resort (Director of the Turks and Caicos Islands Ports Authority) wanted to get shot of this development and possibly helped arranged something with the bank and the buyer. Who knows. Needs investigation if you ask me.

The TCI newspapers are on the case.
Doug Smallbone

Yellowbird

Perception says you are right

However being a director/chairman or whatever does not make you the owner

Have you got concrete evidence that the major shareholder is he?

I have failed to unearth any evidence - TCI does not have a Companies House like the UK

That is one of the reasons the island is so corrupt

If only I had done adequate due diligence
Doug Smallbone

Yellowbird

TCI Newspapers on case

Ha ha

After being very keen the TCI Sun refused to respond after I assume I got close

My correspondence is all documented

Birds of a Feather
webberlimerick

Auction

All

I am too a current investor, what astounds me is the lack of communication from the Rahls/the developer. It seems to me that there is some sort of under handed deal or fraud taking place with this development and its apparently very good timing that the airport work starts and our development goes to Auction.

I know i'm Irish but I didn't come down the last shower as they say lol.

I can assure you I am not going down without a fight and I would be quite happy to lodge a case with the serious fraud office here in London (as this is where I live currently).

We all need to take note here and join forces to put our claim on this farce and for all those who in my eyes "have taken our money to line there pockets be held accountable".

We must agree a plan to join forces and work together.
YellowBird

Doug Smallbone wrote:

Have you got concrete evidence that the major shareholder is he?


That's a good point. He could just be a paid Director with 0% shares with connections to the TCI government, but even if this is the case, Directors should be held accountable and this smells of corruption and fraud.

Why does no body who invested know who the owner is!!!

Lack of communication from the Rahls seems intentional to me. Statute of limitations perhaps? My last communication from the Rahls was 2011
Doug Smallbone

Yellowbird

Somebody is having difficulty getting to sleep at night with the awkward bulge under the bed

500 x deposit $75k  =   $37.5m

It did not cost anywhere near that to build the breezeblock infrastructure

Mind you we only have the web to confirm actually 500 were sold
Adam Ludlam

In response to 'papadodge' request for UK investors on 12 April, I can confirm that I am familiar with the regulatory legal proposal. They work on a no win/ no fee basis and they look to make redress claims on behalf of the UK investor. They would look to package up a group of investors and make FCS claims in the UK. this is not dependent on funds being in the project, it is UK government funded.

For this to be successful you need to have been advised by an authorised person and not be time barred. Don't ask who authorised persons are and what the relevant time period is.

In summary if you can enough people interested, they may consider the case.
fedup

Compensation UK

In response to Adam's post about a group claim in the UK, are there any investors who would be interested in doing this? I certainly would be.
papadodge

Adam

Many thanks

I have investigated this further and my information  is the same as yours.

In my case for example I invested via  UK agent , with a UK regulated IFA and  invested via my UK SIPP regulated pension.

As you say I understand the claims would be via third party firms with the Financial Ombudsman Service ( FOS) or the Finaccial Services Compensation Service ( FSCS )

I also understand it may be possible but more difficult where UK  investors invested direct.

I understand the claims would be redress claims against the financial adviser in the UK to get your money back not against the developer or the RAHLs .

I agree with Adam are there any other like minded in the UK out there who would like to explore as a  group  in parallel those who wish to spend time and money with legal claims in the T and C .


Papadodge
ppob

Rahls

Well it has been a long time coming.  My husband and myself purchased our two units in 2004.  Same hopes and dreams as everyone on the forum.  We had a split in opinion around 2007, me the ever-suspicious New Yorker and my husband the civilized boy from Kent.  The Rahls conducted themselves extremely unprofessional all these years, so much so, I am shocked and horrified at their actions.  Once you signed on the dotted line, you were cut off of all communication and treated like trash.  The Queen was not to be approached as she was working on much more important issues.  God forbid we inquire as to the status of the project.  Equally, God forbid we ask who the developers are (off with our heads for being so bold!).  They had us all by the @#$% and enjoyed every minute of it.

I can go on and on....

Last year, we attempted at one last ditch effort to go after these fraudsters.  We hired a lawyer in Palm Beach who has seen many of dirty deal by these types in the Florida.  We were advised to file a complaint with the Florida Bar Association in order to get the ball rolling to prove there were illegal actions by the Rahls with regard to their involvement in the development.  A lot of paperwork went back and forth and so much was REVEALED from Patty.  She is very sloppy, rude and unprofessional in her communication to the Board.  She stinks of entitlement.  Patty informed the Board she had no investment whatsoever in the development other than a US attorney making a transaction on behalf of her client.  We were confident that the board would see our side, but as we lacked enough evidence we did not prevail.  I am happy to share all of this !

I have filed complaints with many other  U.S. entities, including the Treasury, FBI, Comptroller of the Currency SIGTARP (as we never signed off our escrow),  and the Serious Fraud Org in the UK whom investigated the Harlequin development in Barbados.  We even went so far as to reach out to the Office of the Governor Peter Beckingham, the E.U. Ambassador, Paola Amadei and copied the office of William Hague!  

I do believe that what has come to be, that now is the time to revisit all these entities to uncover the truth.  I will post shortly a list of everyone and their emails. A campaign is in order.

I dont believe we need to spend anymore MONEY on this now.  We can in numbers, inundate these officials and agencies.  I would suggest we reach out to the Editor of the TCI Barry  at editor@caribbeannewsnow.com

I have saved every letter and will resend with this new updated information.  I would suggest we start a linkedin page so we can all communicate and share and bring others on board.

We may have lost our money but that doesnt mean we have to go down without a fight.  We have been disregarding, duped and insulted long enough.  

Thanks,
Pam & Paul O'Brien
obriengroup@aol.com
ppob

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA),

Subj: RE: Suspected Fraud on Turks & Caicos Resort

Dear Mr. and Mrs. O’Brien:

Thank you for your email.

The purpose of this email address is to receive information regarding violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), which makes it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to offer, promise, or make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business.  Because of the limited purpose of this email address, we cannot answer every email that we receive.

Please consider providing details regarding the payment of bribes to government officials, as noted in your initial complaint. Otherwise, if you believe you are the victim of a crime or wish to report violations of other criminal statutes, please contact your local law enforcement agency, such as the appropriate field office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or online at http://www.fbi.gov/report-threats-and-crime.

Thank you.

FCPA Coordinator

Criminal Division, Fraud Section

U.S. Department of Justice

FCPA.Fraud@usdoj.gov
ppob

More contacts

I am compiling a list of contacts in which to send your complaint(s) regarding Rahls, Developer and Govt.  We have strength in numbers.  

Keeping the press informed is always a plus.  I will send some of these contacts too.

I am always available at obriengroup@aol.com if you want me to forward some of my letters.

Best,
Pam
webberlimerick

Re: Compensation UK

[quote="fedup:924"]In response to Adam's post about a group claim in the UK, are there any investors who would be interested in doing this? I certainly would be.[/quote

I would be very interested in joining forces in numbers. This whole development and the rahls stink of corruption. I am a UK investor and will not go down with a fight as they say.
ppob

Ritz

Arthur,

Yes, smells very familiar.  It would be interesting to see if these reporters would approach Alden Durham about what happened to the 35 million plus of investors cash.  We would have to deduct 15 years of the Rahls many holidays to and from the TCI of course.  

I see one reporter, Ange Toussaint at ange@ptv.tc and I will be sending her my notes.  Others should consider doing the same.

Pam
adamludlam

To follow up on papadoge and Fedup posts, is there any interest in UK investors making a claim to recover their funds via the FCCS. For you to claim, you need to have been advised by a regulated person. This can be a solicitor, financial advisor or suitably qualified person. This is not dependent on R&R having any cash, as it is funded by the UK government. It is a real opportunity to recover funds invested.
Can I suggest a separate thread is created where individuals who are interested, list their names and contact deals, so we can see if there is enough interest?
papadodge

AdAm

I think that is an excellent idea , US and other investors will have no interest in the Uk regulatory and compensation system

Papadodge
adamludlam

IT is not my thing, so if you can facilitate the creation of the new thread then please go ahead.
papadodge

Adam Job done I have created a new thread for UK investors interested in forming a group to look at the possibility of financial redress claims from financial advisers

See UK financial claims

Papadodge
ppob

Some Agencies to Reach Out To

FLORIDA FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Miami@ic.fbi.gov

FLORIDA BAR ASSOCIATION
John Harkness Jr, Executive Director, Navan Ramnath, Allyson Kline, Florida Bar Association
651 East Jefferson Street, Tallahassee Florida 32399
nramnath@flabar.org, akline@flabar.org

U.S. - FCPA
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FCPA Coordinator, Criminal Division Re: Suspected Fraud on Turks and Caicos Resort
FCPA.Fraud@usdoj.gov

U.S. - COMPTROLLER OF THE CURRENCY (in assoc. w/ SIGTARP)
1301 McKinney Street, Ste. 3450
Houston Texas 77010-9050
Tel: 800 613-6743

TURKS & EU OFFICIALS
Office of the Governor, H.E. Peter Beckingham
Office of the EU Ambassador, H.E. Paola Amadei
Office of Acting Governor, Hon. Anya Williams
Office of Turks & Caicos Investment Trust
investmentunit@gov.tc, delegation-jamaica@eeas.europa.eu, fcocorrespondence@fco.gov.uk, foi-dpa.imd@fco.gov.uk; newsdesk@fco.gov.uk


UK - SERIOUS FRAUD OFFICE
http://www.sfo.gov.uk/victims.aspx
confidential@sfo.gsi.gov.uk
ppob

A thought

“Hell has three gates: lust, anger, and greed”

Bhagavad Gita
sophieccl

A glimmer of hope

Hey Cabbie, I totally relate to your story.  I too have potentially lost everything.  However, I want to share with you that I have heard from the agent who acted for the Rahls and originally sold the properties to me.  He said it is NOT over!  This is someone who has become a friend to me over the years and I trust him.  He also invested (in 4 units) so in the same boat as us. The Rahls are still working on things to resolve this.  Apparently they are writing to us all so we should receive something soon.  I can only guess they are trying to reverse the auction?  I don't know any details.  I really don't think this will drag out like before.  I think we will know one way or another soon enough what is happening.  I am waiting to hear from them.  If it has all gone down then I will be looking at all routes of recouping my deposit.  However, I am sitting it out a bit longer as I do think there is a glimmer of hope!  Best wishes, Sophie
cabbie

Re: A glimmer of hope

sophieccl wrote:
Hey Cabbie, I totally relate to your story.  I too have potentially lost everything.  However, I want to share with you that I have heard from the agent who acted for the Rahls and originally sold the properties to me.  He said it is NOT over!  This is someone who has become a friend to me over the years and I trust him.  He also invested (in 4 units) so in the same boat as us. The Rahls are still working on things to resolve this.  Apparently they are writing to us all so we should receive something soon.  I can only guess they are trying to reverse the auction?  I don't know any details.  I really don't think this will drag out like before.  I think we will know one way or another soon enough what is happening.  I am waiting to hear from them.  If it has all gone down then I will be looking at all routes of recouping my deposit.  However, I am sitting it out a bit longer as I do think there is a glimmer of hope!  Best wishes, Sophie


Sophie...

I can assure you with the evidence I have, there is nothing that can be done.
The only thing she can do is restitution of deposits in good faith.
The property is gone. If she thinks she can go after the Government, good luck. If she had a true legal orientation and had the funds to suit the TCI government, should she not have done it post '08? What happened now, did she have a psychic revelation?
You need to get off that Disney Bus...and Disney tours. It is over with respect to the Rahl's having the capability to do anything.

Your Agent unfortunately is drinking the Disney GG juice.

I wish you the best.

~Best
Oliver

Should we not have a single articulate letter on all our behalves to the various authorities as oppose to everyone writing separate letters in which information conflict? We must have some legal people here who have experience in this format..
sophieccl

Ok Cabbie, I respect your views but at this stage I don't agree.  Best, Sophie
fedup

one letter from all

I agree with Oliver that one letter accurately stating the facts from all, would be much better than people potentially contradicting each other. I unfortunately do not have all the facts to hand, to do it myself.
Oliver

So does anyone have the knowledge, experience and, importantly, the time to do this. At the moment we are all blustering about but nobody is focusing on any consolidated response or recourse.

I am presuming many are still working, or don't have the background information or just don't want to stand up. But somebody needs to do this otherwise all this shouting has no value.

I am sure the investors will all support anyone who has the willingness to do this. Please someone come forward.
Doug Smallbone

Oliver

I think that, following all the support he has had on this Forum, from all and sundry - you, GH,  etc -  Chuck is undoubtedly the guy to pursue your objectives
ldp

Re: A glimmer of hope

sophieccl wrote:
Hey Cabbie, I totally relate to your story.  I too have potentially lost everything.  However, I want to share with you that I have heard from the agent who acted for the Rahls and originally sold the properties to me.  He said it is NOT over!  This is someone who has become a friend to me over the years and I trust him.  He also invested (in 4 units) so in the same boat as us. The Rahls are still working on things to resolve this.  Apparently they are writing to us all so we should receive something soon.  I can only guess they are trying to reverse the auction?  I don't know any details.  I really don't think this will drag out like before.  I think we will know one way or another soon enough what is happening.  I am waiting to hear from them.  If it has all gone down then I will be looking at all routes of recouping my deposit.  However, I am sitting it out a bit longer as I do think there is a glimmer of hope!  Best wishes, Sophie


I too have been given the same response when I emailed my agent (Robert Brown/Grand Capital Investments) I would be interested to hear from others which agents they have bought units through and what their replies have been to the recent news

My personal view is that the really is the final nail that we have all been dreading (and expecting) for some time now.
ldp

Also...

If the Rahls/developer are putting a letter/explanation together to send to us all then surely due to the serious nature of the auction results and likely complete loss of our investment how long will it take them to put an email together? Even if it is just another bit of false hope to inform us that all it not lost (yet!)

They continue to treat us all like mugs and with no respect for our considerable financial investments
Doug Smallbone

To say I am livid about all of these posts is an understatement

If one visits the Caicos Beach Update thread,  you will note that I posted on
the 29 December 2012 ( page 23 ) giving you all ( perceived ) advance warning about our doom.

If you follow the posts you will note that I was defamed by almost every person, none least my personal foe GH, with almost nobody seeing the light.

One assumes that the complex was not in the state of completion as advised, which opens up massive avenues of misrepresentation.

When the purchaser is identified, we essentially need to have a representative view the complex. This will cost but fellow purchasers we need to club together to get the truth.

Can any purchasers advise on the Forum that they would be happy to bear their portion of that cost.
gh

Ahh Douglas old chap, its been a while.

I hardly think its an appropriate time for claiming any kind of credit for emails posted 2.5 years ago, these claims were speculative rather than prophetic. That said I agree that we need to make a collaborative effort, recruiting enthusiastic motivated participants willing to donate their time and possibly funds to the cause wont be a problem but unfortunately we dont seem to have anyone on the forum who has the time, requisite legal knowledge or experience of mounting a legal challenge of the type we require. In short we need direction.

Corresponding with the likes of William Hague's office, TCI Governor, EU Commissioner, FBI etc seems a waste of time as they are hardly likely to become embroiled with the failure of a private investment especially given how difficult it would be to prove some sort of fraud, good luck with the legal solo-runs I've read about recently on the forum but adopting a scatter gun-like approach to correspondence seems a bit misguided, we need to target the most appropriate people. Who do we actually need to engage with ? ...I dont have an answer to that. For all we know there's probably been various share transfers taking place behind the CBC scenes absolving those responsible, reducing any significant personal stake in the project and making them effectively worthless on paper.

The bank clearly dont have any kind of obligation to us, they staged a perfectly legal auction, a buyer turned up with the funds, the transaction was completed and the bank has drawn a line and moved on. The new owners arent the enemy, they dont need to engage with us either as they havent done anything illegal.

US and UK/TCI legal process seems so different so Im not sure how a unified approach from all purchasers would fare, there are many different permutations of personal circumstance involved here as well as methods of purchase so common ground across all these scenarios would need to be catered for.

More questions than answers I'm afraid, in which jurisdiction do we start our legal fight ?, how much of the costly legwork could we do ourselves ?, who would coordinate the effort ?. Chuck has recently had major surgery, still has the trust of RR and has already given up too much of his personal life to this already not to mention shipping industrial quantities of abuse on the forum so I'm sure he could do without the additional stress. Whether you believe it or not RR aren't giving up without a fight and are apparently still trying to resurrect a deal.
Doug Smallbone

Well GH old Chap ( your terminology ) , as you say we talk again.

You have so much to say but will not divulge your E Mail Address.

Beware fellow Forum members of taking in any advice of those that
allege to have the ears of the Rahls.

This episode, which I am sure is lost, could stall until 2025 when
we have statements that attempt to preclude "us" from obtaining the truth.

My sympathy goes out to Chuck - I hope he is not serious  -  but he has many times said he has visited the complex and has advised all on Forum
of advanced status.

I refer back to my post of 29 December 2012  -  where are the advice and delivery notes for 500 kitchen units and 500 bath/shower units?

When are the people on this Forum going to smell the coffee?
gh

Douglas,

- As far as I remember I haven't been asked to divulge my personal email address.
- This is an internet forum. The idea is that people can read and comment upon any posted communication.
- This is an internet forum with a PM facility.
- I dont allege to have the ears of the Rahls.

How would publicising my email address be of any benefit to anybody ?

best regards.
G
Doug Smallbone

GH

Far from wanting to have a go at you I am quite certain, even with our differing views, we would enjoy a beer together.

You are quite correct in me being an old chap.

I am a qualified accountant in practice and have identified some elaborate
cases of creative accountancy.

It becomes very obvious to a trained accountant that there is a reason why
the paper trail of a corporate business leads you down a blind alley to
identify the shareholders.

In the UK there is the case of Tony Blair, but even then you can eventually
identify who is at the end of the subsidiaries.

Surely you, because I reckon you are pretty turned on and very articulate,
can see the reason why Forum members suspect the " rat up the drainpipe syndrome " when we are regularly given upbeat statements from fellow
Forum members ( who say they have had communication with the Rahls ) and most of us file the slightest correspondence from the Rahls ( when was last one ) with our collection of hens teeth.
Doug Smallbone

GH

Far from wanting to have a go at you I am quite certain, even with our differing views, we would enjoy a beer together.

You are quite correct in me being an old chap.

I am a qualified accountant in practice and have identified some elaborate
cases of creative accountancy.

It becomes very obvious to a trained accountant that there is a reason why
the paper trail of a corporate business leads you down a blind alley to
identify the shareholders.

In the UK there is the case of Tony Blair, but even then you can eventually
identify who is at the end of the subsidiaries.

Surely you, because I reckon you are pretty turned on and very articulate,
can see the reason why Forum members suspect the " rat up the drainpipe syndrome " when we are regularly given upbeat statements from fellow
Forum members ( who say they have had communication with the Rahls ) and most of us file the slightest correspondence from the Rahls ( when was last one ) with our collection of hens teeth.

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